In an earlier post, I mentioned frequent urination as the result of using 5
grams of creatine monohydrate a day. The change occurs immedietly in me
after one use with no change in fluid intake. I don't simply drink a ton
of water and imagine I'm urinating more often.
Carson Wood
Westbrook, ME USA.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chad Scheitel" <chadscheitel@
To: <Supertraining@
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 12:27 AM
Subject: [Supertraining] Re: Creatine Supplementation Leading to Muscle
Cramps and Dehydration?
> Nick,
>
> I think you have a pretty good hypothesis going here.
> How old are you? Do you happen to be in school right
> now? This would be a good research project to do. If
> any college students or researchers in this group in
> the field should take note.
>
> In the meantime we can do pre-test model using this
> yahoo group. How about a few people on here who have
> had muscle cramping issues while taking creatine in
> the past volunteer. One group of you can do what most
> people taking creatine do and drink a ton of water
> (and then they think it is the creatine that is making
> them pee so much). You can start by keeping track of
> all dietary intake (expecially creatine and fluid
> intake) and physical activity. If you have cramps
> write down when and how bad. Another group of you can
> opt to be in the other group and try to limit your
> fluid intake while consuming creatine and once again
> log all of your dietary intake, physical activity and
> cramping. Then one group can be the control group and
> not use creatine and record cramps, diet, PA. Feel
> free to report on here what you get.
> Regards,
>
> Chad Scheitel, MA, CSCS
> Minneapolis, MN
>
>
>
> --- Nick Tatalias <nick.tatalias@
>
>> Hi Bill
>>
>> In your post you ask the question "Does it makes
>> sense that greater
>> intramuscular water would cause
>> cramps?"
>>
>> I think it may if you look at the post by Jamie
>> Carruthers entitled
>> "Dehydration/
>> Depletion and Cramps" in which he relates a web site
>> that discusses the lack
>> of scientific evidence for the electrolyte depletion
>> model .
>>
>> I have tried to extract the relevant bits but it is
>> quite long still so I
>> have highlighted the most outstanding sentences in
>> caps - not to shout but
>> to make noticable. Following this I have quoted
>> from your excerpts from you
>> creatine study.
>>
>> ************
>>
>> The electrolyte depletion model of muscle cramps
>>
> http://scienceofspo
>>
>> ...Professor Martin Schwellnus is hands down the one
>> researcher who has
>> consistently moved this area forward. As a sports
>> physician he has
>> treated many a runner with cramps, and his curiosity
>> and what he was
>> seeing in the medical tents lead him to challenge
>> this paradigm that
>> dehydration and electrolyte problems cause cramps.
>> What he found was
>> that this model was based on not one shred of
>> scientific data, and
>> instead relied heavily on anecdotal evidence. Since
>> 1997 he has
>> published some of the only evidence available that
>> has even attempted
>> to determine what actually is causing the cramps and
>> who is prone to
>> this condition.
>>
>> In a 2004 study published in the British Journal of
>> Sports Medicine,
>> Professor Schwellnus and his colleagues examined
>> runners before and
>> after the Two Oceans 56 km marathon in Cape Town.
>>
>> WHAT IS ALSO NOTEWORTHY FROM THIS STUDY WAS THAT THE
>> CRAMPERS HAD AN
>> AVERAGE LOSS OF BODY WEIGHT OF 2.9%, COMPARED TO
>> 3.6% FOR THE NON-
>> CRAMPING CONTROLS. IN OTHERWORDS, THE PEOPLE WHO DID
>> NOT CRAMP LOST
>> MORE WEIGHT THAN THE PEOPLE WHO DID. It goes further
>> than this,
>> because Schwellnus et al were able to measure the
>> change in plasma
>> volume as well - a more direct measure for what is
>> happening to
>> fluids. HERE, THEY FOUND THAT THE CRAMPERS ACTUALLY
>> GAINED A SMALL
>> AMOUNT OF 0.2% DURING THE RACE. THE NON-CRAMPING
>> CONTROL SUBJECTS
>> LOST 0.7%. So the sum effect of this data is that it
>> suggests very
>> strongly that cramping is not associated with
>> dehydration, or with
>> lower serum electrolyte levels, which is what we
>> have had drilled
>> into us for many years!
>>
>> The next year they published a study in Medicine and
>> Science in
>> Sports and Exercise, and instead of runners it was
>> Ironman
>> triathletes.
>>
>> So the two groups were essentially the same in that
>> the crampers did
>> not spend longer in the course or lose more weight
>> (a crude measure
>> of dehydration)
>> controls looked
>> remarkably similar on paper---except as in the 2004
>> study the
>> crampers again had a statistically SIGNIFICANT LOWER
>> SODIUM
>> concentration, and, we will repeat this, THAT
>> SUGGESTS THEY WERE MORE
>> HYDRATED COMPARED TO THE CONTROLS. . .YET THEY WERE
>> CRAMPING....
>>
>> ************
>>
>> You then quote this from the study of creatine
>>
>> ************
>> The Effects of Creatine Loading on Thermoregulation
>> and Intermittent
>> Sprint Exercise Performance in a Hot Humid
>> Environment
>> The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research
>> Aug 2007
>>
>> "Therefore,increase
>> from Cr
>> supplementation may prove to be beneficial for
>> maintaining hydration
>> status and core tempterature in athletes training or
>> competing in the
>> heat."
>>
>> "BODY WEIGHT INCREASES HAVE BEEN DETERMINED TO BE
>> RELATED TO INCREASES
>> IN TOTAL BODY WATER, MORE SPECIFICALLY,
>> INTRAMUSCULAR WATER." (The
>> authors cite six studies to support this statement.)
>> - p 655
>> **********
>> So you asked - does it makes sense that greater
>> intramuscular water would
>> cause
>> cramps? Well given the discussion above I will ask
>> a question which on
>> reflection was badly asked in my previous post. Is
>> not the increased
>> intramuscular water resulting in a situation of
>> hyponatremia localised in
>> the muscle causing cramps. Is the author of the
>> creatine paper not making a
>> fundamentally incorrect assumption that increased
>> hydration is better than
>> either controlled balanced hydration or minor losses
>> in water as this causes
>> an increase in mineral concentration which may be
>> beneficial. Is the
>> creatine possibly causing the cramps through
>> increased hydration?
>>
>> Best regards
>> Nick Tatalias
>> Johanesburg
>> South Africa
>
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